Tuesday, December 29, 2009

Arguing with RO (Yes, it is Tuesday already)

RO posted here about my post here.

He had a lot to say about my use of the word sacrifice. I agree with him in theory. I disagree in practicality. Take it for what it is worth. I think we are both right. I'd love to hear Jason Miller's take on this stuff but I know he is swamped with his awesome class.

The theory is that the universe is an open system and therefore any magick that I do to gain money doesn't mean it has to come out of a finite money supply. There is an infinite source of riches. I first heard this theory from Sam Webster of OSOGD fame. I agreed with him too, after thinking about it.

However, in practical terms how would money I sent a spirit for manifest?

  • My father could suddenly write me a check.
  • I could be offered paid overtime at work.
  • I could get hit by a bus and the insurance payment is larger than my expenses.
  • My Gal could land a windfall and share.
  • I could find a lost wallet with no id.
  • I could get promoted.
  • I could get an outside job that utilized by Crystal Report writing skills.
Is there a sacrifice made here?

  • My father sacrificed all other uses of the money he would send.
  • Given limited budgets in my work place, someone else would not get overtime or  we may not be allowed to buy paper for our printers. Pens are already off limits for purchase.
  • Trust me, getting hit by a bus would be a sacrifice on my part
  • My Gal would sacrifice other opportunities to spend her windfall on something shiny.
  • The person who lost the wallet sacrificed its spending power.
  • Due to budget constraints any promotion I get will hurt somebody somewhere.
While the source of money may be infinite, its practical arrival would necessitate some sort of sacrifice on someone's part. With the possible exception of the outside job. Even if a spirit produced the money out of a vacuum, his or her or its efforts would be a sacrifice of its energy, time or whatever efforts spirits make. It may be willing sacrifice given my sacrifice of something else to the spirit but a sacrifice it is.

If I needed money to get an operation, repair my house, or some other major event, I'd have no problem asking the universe for aid. This simply wasn't necessary in this act of magick.

Last Night's Post

I was a little shaky last night, trying to put my head on straight after the events of the day. The visit from Metatron was mind blower. I am sure some serious changes are coming. I do not fear them. I am trying to wrap my head around the information imparted.

Just For Fun

I have doing a lot of fun reading of late. I'd like to recommend Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series. The alternative reality fiction is set in relatively modern times where magic is real but the population is unaware. Yes, it is a bit over the top. It is fiction. It is well-written, fun, and mixes is some magickal facts. Some magickal facts. RO will hate it. If any of you enjoy action type fiction, detective stories and things with an magical theme, you'll love this stuff. Here is a link to the first book in the series.

He also writes a swords/sorcery type adventure story that is unique in how magic works. That magic is accessible to everyone in a greater or lesser extent, except the main character. These are very enjoyable as well. Here is a link to the first book in this series. 

P.S. I have made $23.00 off this blog by linking to Amazon. Oddly, most of it last September. I only make recommendations on things I enjoy and/or find useful magickally/spirituality.


Jason Miller, said...

"I'd love to hear Jason Miller's take on this stuff but I know he is swamped with his awesome class."

Since you specifically asked...

Really you are both right. The level to which you are taking the idea of sacrifice or impact almost covers all movement of any kind whatsoever. Take a step and squash a bug etc.

He is right in that in most cases the money manifests in ways that other people are not negatively impacted in any way that they consider noticable or important.

What I REALLY think is that this might be the silliest "argument" I have ever seen :)

Anonymous said...

Oh, for the love of GOD!

Note to self: Never underestimate the power of ludicrous-situations.

Aristotle was certainly correct.

The Scribbler said...

NOT THAT I AGREE WITH EITHER OF YOU, though I tend toward the infinite source point of view, I notice that your examples are tailored to suit you argument. What if the money manifested:

...through finding a lost gold coin while digging in your garden?

...discovering something you know is of great value at a garage sale that's selling for peanuts? (Pretty far-fetched to argue that the person selling it is sacrificing if they have know idea what they are selling).

...Someone offers you money to do a one-off two-day job requiring unique skills that you have?

It seems to me there are any number of ways money can manifest that doesn't require sacrifice from anyone/anything.

To me the question is more often if I'm not inappropriately using psychic resources to accomplish something that couldn't be accomplished with resources on a more mundane level. Do I have something I don't need that I could sell to get the money? Could I offer to do something for somebody to earn the money? I sometimes think people want things to manifest too easily when a little thinking and work would accomplish it more reliably.

Alkhemia said...

When working with the spirits, I always do some form of sacrifice for them - a sacrifice of my money, time, or an object that I have signified as having importance. As the Havamal says, "a gift demands a gift." My workings with the spirits and/or the gods has indicated to me that things work better when there is a relationship of reciprocity - not childish feelings of entitlement.

Frankly, the whole "the Universe has an unlimited bank account" and it wants to give *YOU* money, sounds not dissimilar to the various peddlers of "prosperity gospels." If we are using "sacrifice" as a technical term, let's use it as the ancients understood it and quit applying all kinds of minimalist and/or "all reward without getting my hands dirty" meanings to it.

Eldritch said...

Great post but the dresden series (a hellblazer rip off) is so-so, I recommend Devil's Tower by Mark Sumner:


Very original and well done.

Frater POS said...

@Scrib, one of the ways I listed was getting a job with the skills I have as a counter example.

It appears that my experience is different from the rest of the world's. Or, maybe it is my methods or perspective.

No biggie really.

Frater POS said...

Eld: It may be a rip off but I think it was fun and enjoyable. I will pick up the book you recommended. I am near the end of a Pratchet, Pyramids.

~Sr. A.I.~ said...

To comment on the mundane content of this post: I adore the Dresden Files series! I tore through the whole pile of them in about 2 weeks. It was so much fun and I hope he keeps adding to the saga.

Rufus Opus said...

Alkhemia, I didn't say "the Universe has an unlimited bank account and it wants to give *YOU* money." That's not my philosophy at all.

Instead, it's more like, "the Universe has unlimited resources and it wants *YOU* to be its personal representative within your Sphere of Influence."

It's not all about "*YOU*" (not Alkhemia-you, you-general). It's not all about money either.